Former Literary Agent Mark Malatesta – About

Mark Malatesta – Testimonial by Dave Hamme

Mark, after you helped me land a top literary agent, I got publishing offers from THREE well-known publishers: Amacom, Palgrave Macmillan, and McGraw-Hill (they’re publishing my book in hardcover)!

I was at Disneyworld with my family, in the Haunted Mansion, when I got the call. I went outside and listened to the voicemail message from my agent. A huge smile came over my face. It was a fantastic feeling. For a moment I felt like life was perfect and the angels were singing.

You helped me understand the market for agents and showed me how to present myself in a more straightforward fashion. Before I worked with you I sent out 30 queries, but they were kind of blind up to that point… and I wasn’t feeling very good about the responses I was getting. I had a generic query letter, something I got from a book that didn’t really resonate. It didn’t have that pop of a great hook up front. It felt like a form letter.

The most important thing I got from working with you, by far, was refining my query letter (making it crystal clear) because agents don’t read past the first 2 sentences unless you’ve done that. You have to communicate what you’re about and how your book is different. You also showed me how to talk about my unique experience and process, increase my credibility, and take advantage of my credentials. I think you said, “Approach it like you’re selling it to a business investor and give them something they’ll believe is worth investing in.”

That’s important.

PART 2 – DH Success Story

I first found you when I was researching agents online. Your website was one of the first ones that came up. I said, ‘Holy cow!’ I poked around your website and saw a lot of information that seemed very informative. Then I saw you had a promotion for an introductory call and said, ‘This guy seems like he has a grasp of the market.’ That’s why I reached out to you.

At that point I just wanted to speak to someone who had been in the industry and had some knowledge of how agents think, because you can’t get that from a book. You can only get it from someone who’s been an agent. I don’t know how to say it, but it was one of those moments where my thinking changed. I said, “You know what? I’m not just sending out a bunch of proposals. I’m sending them out to people. I have to quit thinking of agents as gatekeepers and start thinking of them as human beings with motivations and desires just like everybody else.” I didn’t have that prior to us talking. You showed me how agents think.

Before I signed up to work with you I have to admit that I did have thoughts like, ‘Am I being taken here?’ I think that’s just natural. Any time there is money involved, whether or not it’s a nominal amount, you still have skepticism. What helped me get over the hump was the ton of information on your website. That helped me overcome my reservations. The other thing you did that helped was your well-constructed emails that you send out. You talk a lot about branding, and you seem branded well. That, to me, denotes a level of competence as well as dedication. That comes through on your website as well, and all the testimonials you have make everything feel successful.

PART 3 – DH Success Story

When we talked, you had a voice that felt informed but friendly and approachable. You gave me insight and perspective about the publishing industry, but also the confidence to keep pushing. I learned that even if you’ve already sent out lots of queries, you can rewrite your query and agents won’t even recognize the book the next time it comes to them. The opportunity isn’t dead. You showed me that at a good time because I was wondering: “Is this ever going to happen?’ And in talking to you, I said, ‘This isn’t the end. There’s a lot of potential here. I believe in it, and I just need to rework it.”

Authors are driven people and, at the end of the day, if you can give them information in the right form and in the right place, they can run with it. That’s what you’re seeing with me. I’m probably no different than anyone else and my book is probably as good or bad as anyone else’s, but you gave me what I needed and boom… it hit.

If we hadn’t worked together I might have said, ‘Let me shelve this for a couple of years and work on something else.’ To every other author out there thinking about contacting you, Mark, I want to say, ‘Weigh it all out. Don’t go in with any reservations. And make sure you share everything with Mark. You know: those fears you have about the publishing industry, your concerns, maybe a lack of confidence, or a lack of understanding about your author platform. Whatever it is, lay it all out there. Mark will help you understand everything, and make it better.

Thank you Mark, for helping me make it all happen.

DAVID HAMME is the author of Customer Focused Process Innovation (McGraw Hill), published in hardcover

Dave worked with Mark Malatesta to improve his book and pitch materials, resulting in offers from three major publishers: Amacom, Palgrave Macmillan, and Mc-Graw Hill, which published Customer Focused Process Innovation in hardcover. In the following interview, Dave shares more details about his time working with Mark as an author coach. He also shares tips for authors of all types of books about the best way to write, publish, and promote a book.

• Mark Malatesta Interviews Dave Hamme

What Others Are Saying About Mark Malatesta, Author Coach

• Author Coaching/Consulting Clients
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• Writers Conference Coordinators
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Dave Hamme Interview With Mark Malatesta – How to Get a Literary Agent

During this 60-minute interview with Mark Malatesta, author Dave Hamme talks about what he did to get offers from three traditional publishers: Palgrave Macmillan, Amacom, and Mc-Graw Hill. Dave chose to work with Mc-Graw Hill, which published his book, Customer Focused Process Innovation, in hardcover. In this interview, Dave provides advice for authors of all types of book about how to get a literary agent. He also talks about his time working with author coach and former literary agent Mark Malatesta.

Mark Malatesta: David Hamme is a business consultant and author of the nonfiction book, Customer Focused Process Innovation, published by Mc-Graw Hill.

Dave is the Managing Director of Ephesus Consulting, an innovative consulting firm in North Carolina. Prior to founding Ephesus, Dave worked stints as a management consultant for companies like Ernst & Young.

Over his 20-year career, Dave’s clients have included companies like GE Capital, Kellogg’s, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Family Dollar, Lowe’s Home Improvement, and Time Warner.

Dave’s book has gotten ALL five star reviews.

The VP of Marketing at Family Dollar Stores says:

“Finally, a business book that not only provides great thought-provoking insight into how a business operates, but also gives the step-by-step instructions to create a blueprint that everyone in the organization can follow to take the guesswork out of execution.”

Stephen Shapiro, author of Best Practices Are Stupid says:

“Ninety-nine percent of the innovation books published don’t address the part of the process where ninety-nine percent of the value is created: implementation. However, David addresses this complex issue head on. If you want to make innovation a reality, get this book.”

You can learn more about Dave [online].

So, welcome, Dave!

Are you there?

DH: Yes, Mark, and first let me say thank you for the role you played on my journey to get published. It’s been a great journey, and I appreciate everything you did to help me get there.

Mark Malatesta: Thank you. I’m so excited for you. I know we were chatting a little bit before we started and I’m super excited for you. In particular, when you’re a nonfiction author and have a book that is in any way relevant or connected in some way to your business, it means even more sometimes. We’ll get into all that and how it changed things for you. I’m thrilled to have you on today.

DH: Thank you.

Mark Malatesta: Let’s dive right in. I know I just told everyone–through a few testimonials you got from well-known people–a little about your book. But, is there anything important I left out, or you want to add? I know we have a broad audience listening, of readers and writers. What do you think everyone needs to know about your book?

DH: I think the key thing is my book is a bit of an outlier today. What I mean is, if you look at all the popular books about business for the last several decades, a lot of them have been about leadership–and how there have to be different qualities and qualifications for leaders and they need to inspire their people. I think that’s all true, and any business consultant would agree.

My book is different in that I begin to attack some of what I think are the structures and practices we assume when we walk into a business environment or any organization, and they’re already in place. We accept, follow, and heed them subconsciously and in doing so, I think we’re making a lot of mistakes.

My book is about attacking those structures and practices, and proposing new approaches and paradigms in terms of how we manage work. And, more importantly, how we change companies over time to make them more efficient and effective for their stakeholders.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 2

Mark Malatesta: I love that. I’ve done a few of these interviews already, and you just made me see something different that’s fun. First teaching point for everyone listening is you didn’t just say this is what my book’s about, which is what I asked you. You did the brilliant thing, and why you’re successful, is that you, in short form, answered what the book’s about but you did more. At the same time, you revealed the gap in the market in what was needed, and how your book is fresh and unique and different. I absolutely love that, because that’s what it’s all about.

DH: I had good teachers.

Mark Malatesta: Yes. I only do these interviews, case studies and success stories. with people who have had success working with me. So, the only way you get on here is not only if you got a literary agent, but also a book deal. And it’s usually with a major publisher. It’s the goal everyone listening is looking for. You know how hard it is to get a publisher, and a lot of people listening do.

Let’s take a moment to celebrate that. I’d love for you to share a little about that experience, because that’s what everyone listening is working toward. What was it like to get that call or email? Walk us through when you found out the news that you got the literary agent, and then the book deal, and what did you do to celebrate. How has it changed your life?

DH: To me, the big point was getting the literary agent. That was the point, up until my conversations with you, I’d been struggling with. I wasn’t making the headway I wanted to make. When I finally got the literary agent, that was a huge success, and the call I remember when he called me and said, “Dave, I like your book, and want to represent you.” To me, that was the time I felt the shivers down my back that I kind of made it a little bit.

Mark Malatesta: Right.

DH: To me, that’s 75% of the battle. The other piece was, getting the right literary agent is extremely important, something you and I talked about at length. When I finally had that literary agent, I felt I was going to get a book deal, and it did follow. We sent the book to four publishing houses when the editorial boards were back in season and meeting. I think that’s important, that I really didn’t understand the seasonality of it until we talked.

But, once the book went out, I started to have interviews and those went fairly well. Then the offers started trickling in. I got the first one, and as I hung up the phone with the first publishing house and they said, “We’re going to send you an offer.” That was great, but we were waiting for all of them to come in, and I did get three offers: Amacom, Palgrave Macmillan, and McGraw Hill. With McGraw Hill, the interview clicked and went well. I knew at the end that is the one where I felt if I’m going to hit a homerun, that’s where it’s going to be.

It’s funny, I was at Disneyworld with my family and got a call, and I was in the Haunted Mansion and got out and picked up the phone, and listened to the message from my literary agent. My wife said a huge smile came over my face, because McGraw Hill hit a homerun for us. It was a fantastic feeling. For a moment, I felt like life was perfect and the angels were singing.

Mark Malatesta: I love it! I don’t know if I knew this, it’s been a while, and obviously it takes a while for the book to come out, but three offers from three different publishing houses is a big deal. That is the goal, and I want to reinforce that for everybody listening, is you try to get multiple literary agents interested because then you can interview them, and you don’t say that to them because they want to feel like they’re interviewing you. But it’s like dating, and you have more than one to choose from, and you’ll get the best one for you.

Then the same thing, if you have the option to choose the best literary agent, they’re going to do what you, what your literary agent did, which is get multiple publishers hopefully interested and bidding against each other. They’re courting you, and again, you get to interview them and see who will be the best fit, not just give me the most money? Who really understands the vision of the book, get out there the fastest, and put the most marketing push behind it, etc.? In more ways than one, your success story is even more meaningful because of that one thing.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 3

DH: It’s been a great journey, and there’s been some stardust sprinkled on me for sure.

Mark Malatesta: We’ll get into that, but I think it’s more the effort you put into everything leading up to it to create that perfect storm. I guess there’s a little luck involved along the way too, right?

DH: It’s hard work, but it’s getting the right book in front of the right individual at the right time, and having the right presentation.

Mark Malatesta: Right. Let’s go way back in time, and we’re going to chronicle your journey from the beginning. We started at the end, which is getting the deal. So now let’s go back in time through your journey as an author, long before the book deal, and before we ever met and talked and did what we did together. When did you first get the idea you might become an author? Is this something that happened 12 months or 12 years ago? How did it start?

DH: I’ve always held writers in high regard, because to me it’s an esteemed group to be a part of. I view them as experts. Growing up, even when talking to friends, if you read it in a book it had to be true, and so writers are the experts of our time. I always thought I’d love to be an author, but didn’t know what genre, or what I would do, or what my topics would be, and that developed over time.

I had some starts and stops throughout the years, back into college where I was trying to think about what can I put on paper and make it meaningful. I didn’t have anything that stayed with me until this book. Once you finally find the material, you can communicate that is meaningful and you’re an expert on, it seems to flow more naturally at that point.

Mark Malatesta: Let me piggyback a question, because I know it’s different for you as a nonfiction author as a business owner, and the book is connected to your business. Can you speak to that and your motivation, and what you hoped maybe the book would do for your business? What expectations and hopes you had, and how it’s working together right now? For the other entrepreneurs and business owners out there, I want them to get that, or you can validate what they’re already hoping for. Do you know what I mean?

DH: Absolutely. For me, writing the book was a way to solve a problem, and what that problem was is I had probably over 40 clients over the course of my career, and as I’ve become more tenured in doing different types of consulting work, I’m consulting with a lot of top leaders in the companies you mentioned as examples. It was very challenging when I was trying to consult with them on how to approach growing their businesses, and there wasn’t a book I could point to and say, “It’s in this book, so read this book.”

A lot of the books were about business leadership, but not necessarily about the structure of businesses. By getting their encouragement in saying, “Can you put this down on paper? This is great stuff, I’d love to see it,” that was my incentive to say, “I do have something here. Why don’t I take some time and do this?” In doing it, it’s created a whole new market for me.

I get calls and emails from places all around the world right now, who saw or read my book, and are curious about pieces of it. As an example, I’m speaking in London in June, because there was a company that saw my book and took an interest in the content and said they want me to talk to their folks, and so I’m flying to London to do that. It really can be a tremendous boost for your business if you can deliver upon it, first of all. And second of all, if it’s something that’s novel to the market and they haven’t seen it.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 4

Mark Malatesta: I love that. It establishes you more as a thought leader, and gets people up to speed, and it saves you some kind of training or education time because they’re already familiar with what you do, and so more speaking gigs and higher fees. You can increase your consulting fees. There are so many things that can come out of it, yet there is a lot of work on the front end. But probably in the long run, it saves you time, and makes you more money.

DH: It does, because part of the writing process clarifies all your thoughts, and you have to have everything organized. By the time you’ve finished your book and it’s ready for publication, you’ve probably read it 20 times. You’ve perfected things that frankly you’d never had gone down to that level if you hadn’t written a book. It really clarifies your thoughts and makes how you speak to your clients different, how you present yourself different, and how you promote your business slightly different.

Mark Malatesta: Right. And the order you put the information in putting it out there. I love nonfiction books that way that are grounded in reality. Not so much the thought pieces, but the ones that are grounded in real coaching or consulting work, because if your book is based in that, then you know how to get somebody from A to B. It’s not just abstract stuff and the reader had to do hard work to figure out how to implement anything.

DH: Absolutely, and one comment I got recently was, “It reads like a novel.” To me, that’s what I wanted. If you’re really telling a good story, it should read like a story, and be enjoyable. So that was something I was trying to do with the book, and at least one person felt I was successful.

Mark Malatesta: Right. What type of writing did you do before the book?

DH: As a consultant, we do a lot of writing, but it’s a lot in presentations, case studies, or white papers. I dabbled in fiction a bit, but it was more stop and go. The vast amount of my writing has been presentations, which in some way is great training for writing a book, because as you get into writing a book, you need to say things so it’s interesting and make it short and to the point. So, something that might have taken three pages, you need to whittle it down to one, and also presentations, you have limited space and limited time to speak to leaders, you have to get very good at that. I think that’s been a huge benefit to my writing.

Mark Malatesta: I love that. Is there an interesting story behind how you got the idea for the book?

DH: It came back to the clients, and me trying to preach new methods of doing things. My space is how companies innovate, change, and grow, and how they need to focus their efforts and resources. It just came back to client after client saying, “Where can I read about this and get more information?” I didn’t have something I could point them to, because it was something that had grown in my business over the years of working with this type of client.

Finally, as luck may have it, I don’t know how people are writers part time. I would have never finished the book if I had done it at night, like some people profess to do. I had one of these things where a client engagement ended quickly, and I had three months, and writing became my full-time job. I dressed like I was going to work, went to the basement and sat at a desk, and pumped it out. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and those three months were very challenging but now very rewarding. That’s how I got the book out, and I don’t think it would have happened otherwise.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 5

Mark Malatesta: Right, and I know the John Grisham stories and all that, where I think he was a lawyer at the time, getting up at 4 a.m. to work a bit on his first novel before going to work every day. That’s tough, and takes a strong person. I’m like you, and I need to chunk off a big chunk of time to be able to get any kind of decent writing project going. It’s more efficient and easier if you can do it that way.

DH: Yes, you have to be focused and isolated. It’s a very lonely profession. I think what I had to do is, I had to have hands in both worlds. When I say it was my full time job, it doesn’t mean I wasn’t talking to clients, because I think if you completely isolate yourself, you’re missing out and the world is changing, and you’ll get new ideas. Part of the process, for me, was writing stuff down and then having the world shape it a little for me and coming back and changing it, updating, and editing it. It’s a continuous learning and evolving process for me.

Mark Malatesta: Again, that’s what I love. We’re kind of repeating a theme here, which is grounded in reality, and again, it’s one more layer. That’s why I love books like this, and them getting written like this is that your book, the reason it works and makes sense and you’re able to sell it, a big reason, is that along the way you got feedback. You’re looking people in the eyes through talks and presentations, speaking with clients, and sharing the ideas.

You’re seeing when they’re confused, and have that light bulb moment, and then you’re able to adjust your presentation and make it more powerful based on that real world feedback. A lot of authors don’t do that, and you don’t have to be a consultant to do that, but you’ve got to get your message in front of some people and see if it makes sense. What can you say more concisely? What do you need to expand on?

DH: Yes, that’s part of the process. Writing a book is much about putting words down and also it’s a learning curve. You learn about how things can be presented better, and how you can make your points more clear and stronger. It takes time to do, and not something that happens overnight.

Mark Malatesta: Right. Tell everyone a little bit about your “author education.” Again, a lot of authors wonder what they need. I love asking this question, because you can imagine author responses to this are all over the map. Some authors are English majors, some have Master of Fine Arts degrees (most don’t). Others read and study a lot of books like theirs, and read books on how to be a better writer, style, go to workshops and conferences and seminars. They work with editors or coaches like me. How much of that did you do before we met? What advice do you have for authors along these lines of getting more educated?

DH: I have an undergrad and master’s in business, and there’s been writing sprinkled throughout that, but I don’t think I’ve ever taken a writing class.

Mark Malatesta: Good, I love that, because it’s so empowering for people. It can be intimidating. They’re like, “I need an English degree, or a master’s in fine arts degree,” but keep going.

DH: I have none of that, but I have a copy of Strunk & White on my bookshelf. If people aren’t familiar with that, Strunk & White is a little book about how to write, and I think it was from a college professor. It’s a fantastic book, and whenever I write I think, if I don’t need this word, take it out. That’s been key to me.

The other influence is Stephen King. He wrote a book called On Writing and it’s two parts. Part of it is autobiographical, and the other part is on his writing experience. To me, that book was pure gold because there is an emotional side to writing, in terms of isolation, and how you muddle through. Learning from someone like Stephen King who’s put out 100 books, he has a very methodical process to how he does it, and what works and what doesn’t.

Understanding how he went through that process emotionally and physically, and how he prepares for the books, and puts them down and comes back, all that was pure gold for me to understand the habits of a writer and what you need to do. More than anything, and I don’t know if it’s because I read this, I found myself mimicking a lot of his patterns because they seemed so natural. So, I guess my writing education is more from being an avid reader and looking to Strunk & White and Stephen King for tips on how to get the words onto the paper.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 6

Mark Malatesta: I love that, because there are a few unique things you’re saying there, that most people might not say. One, reading outside your genre. I love that because it’s a great tip, and keeps it fresh, and gets you looking at things. You’re a nonfiction writer, and it should be all white papers and clinical and academic. Yet you’re thinking novel, and how do I make my writing more suspenseful and interesting?

Then also talking about the mindset of a writer, which I didn’t embed in that question, but you brought it up, and it’s huge. It’s incredibly important, and anyone who follows me knows the work I do with my wife, and she’s my strength in that area, but that’s a huge piece too. Writing being such a lonely profession, I’m glad you stressed that.

DH: It is, you’re isolated and with your thoughts, and sometimes your thoughts are scary.

Mark Malatesta: Yes. I’m going to ask you a few nuts and bolts strategy questions for authors on how to think and take action to get their books out and be successful. I know we touched on a couple of these already, so don’t feel you need to spend a lot of time on these questions if you’ve already shared your thoughts. What is your best advice for authors on how to write a book? Again, when thinking about this, we may have some fiction authors listening, and so if you can, give some advice that would be general and work in any genre.

DH: Absolutely. First, write what you know, and even if you’re a fiction writer, you have a career outside writing, so embed it into your book in some way. That’s where the richness of detail in your writing really takes off when you can put things. I’ve read some fiction books I put down immediately because I wasn’t learning anything or feeling a connection. You build that connection by making yourself interesting to the reader. It’s because you know stuff they don’t know, or you have thoughts or feelings they don’t have.

My most important advice I’d give is just get started. Writing is one of those things you have to do to get better at it. It’s like a muscle, and you have to work it to get stronger. You have to give yourself breaks too. Get writing, and then give yourself a break. Stephen King recommends he’d write a book, then sit down and go through it. You have to do it once a day, go through the book. Otherwise, you forget what you wrote three chapters ago, because life is so complex that you lose your connection to the book.

But, when you’re done with it, put it aside, ignore it for a couple of months, and come back to it, and you look at it with fresh eyes. That’s important to making it meaningful. There are still chapters of my book I’d love to rewrite, because as time passed I said, “I didn’t say that as well as I could have.” I guess my key point is get started, be persistent, and get it on paper. Don’t quit your job. It will actually help you. But just start writing. Find to time to do it, and go to a coffee shop where no one knows you, and start writing. That is the most important thing.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 7

Mark Malatesta: I want to circle back to the first suggestion of writing what you know. There are a couple ways to do that, and one is just knowledge. Writing what you know based on life experience, or studying and research. The other is themes, whether it’s nonfiction or fiction, what themes have you dealt with that you can explore and bring in. People don’t understand how important this is.

For example, imagine someone is going to write a mystery series where a literary agent is the main character or protagonist, and that person is someone who has never worked in publishing, and just imagining what it might be like. Then imagine that same mystery series written by someone who is a literary agent in publishing at the highest level for 30 years. Which one do you think will be more true and interesting with richer detail?

DH: Absolutely. You have to know it. You subconsciously put those details in that make it interesting and real. Otherwise it feels hollow and artificial.

Mark Malatesta: And you haven’t had to live this well, traveled glamorous life. Look at Emily Dickinson. People never left their house, but there is always something rich there to explore even if it’s inner.

DH: Couldn’t agree more.

Mark Malatesta: Let’s talk about publishing a book. There are only two choices. You can try to get a traditional publisher or self-publish. Why did you decide to go after a traditional publisher? What’s your best advice for authors who will be making this decision?

DH: I think it comes down to what your book is about. I wanted that stamp of approval and legitimacy, because my book is a little different than the other business books out there today. I think it can be easily dismissed without that stamp of legitimacy. I wanted a large publisher to embrace and publish it. One thing going through the process is a lot of the selling and promoting of the book is going to fall onto you, the author. It’s important you feel comfortable promoting this material, and recognize the publisher will give you some help, but not as much as you expect.

The interviews I’ve done, programs and conferences I’ve attended, those are my doing, and it’s what you’re going to have to do to promote it. Self-publishing, I think, has become a viable option for a lot of people. You can get on Amazon.com and in a lot of the distribution networks, and it’s your promotion and you’re making more per book, the publishers take a healthy cut. It depends on what you want. I wanted it for legitimacy, but if I was writing a fiction book, I would strongly consider self-publishing because your promotional mechanism is almost the same.

Mark Malatesta: It can be. It really depends so much on who the publisher is. You’ll have some books that will start slow, and something will happen. And if you have that traditional publisher, say someone like Oprah picks up your book, and suddenly some things start happening in the media world suddenly. You have a big publisher in place that can meet the demand. The book is out and they can print more quickly. And they have the distribution so you can get to the bestseller level. That is one of the challenging things about self-publishing is you’re limited and everything is 100% on you.

DH: I probably misrepresented large publishing houses a little. To clarify, McGraw Hill’s been fantastic for me. Their support with the editors, and they take a lot of the pressure off the authors. It’s just, I think I went into it with an unreal expectation that they were going to promote me on Good Morning America, and that didn’t happen.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 8

Mark Malatesta: Yes, it depends on the nature of the book. You’re like me, and probably neither one of us will be a household name, but we’re rock stars in our niche. People who know our niche and industry, we’re at the top of our game.

DH: Right. The other benefit to having a publishing house is I’m speaking at conferences. They’ll have someone there, almost anywhere in the world, and they’ll have someone there to sell the books, print out flyers, and they just sold my book to a group out of Singapore that will translate it into Mandarin and distribute it across China. There are a lot of things they do, and I wouldn’t have done that on my own. I think in the past, from the coaching I had received, it would have been easy to go to the big publisher. I think today that decision is more personal and more individualized.

Mark Malatesta: Yes. It’s like love and relationships. We go into it with stars in our eyes. Once we’re there, it’s never as good as you hope, unless you have that real magic where something happens. That bit of luck, and you get on a bestseller list or things take off which can happen. But nine times out of ten, it’s more along the lines of, “It’s good, but I still have to hustle and do things to promote and make it successful.” The publisher is never going to do as much as you ever hope or want. It’s still 100% better then self-publishing, footing the bill, and being alone in it.

DH: Yes.

Mark Malatesta: I think we just crossed over to the next question. Do you have anything to add? What’s your best advice for authors on how to market a book? Once an author knows how it’s going to be published and a publication date has been set–whether they’re working with a traditional publisher or self-publishing–what tips do you have for them to market the book and make it successful?

DH: I’m still learning, but I’ll tell you where I’ve had success. You need to find the right place to build awareness about your book. Right now, for me, it’s conferences and speaking to companies. One of the best avenues for me is there are organizations of professionals who focus on organizational development, and training their workforces. Getting in front of them and having them understand how this book is unique and different, when they promote it.

It’s a fantastic opportunity because those are the people who buy books in bulk for nonfiction, and it’s been a great avenue for me. So, as you’re writing right now, say, “Where would this book sell? Who are the people who would be interested in this book?” Start to put in place, building that network and relationships so you can hit that audience upon publication. It takes time, or its taken time for me.

Mark Malatesta: Yes, I love it. There are two points to that. I want to make sure everyone gets that there are 50 different ways to build your author platform, get more exposure, and sell more books. The key is you shouldn’t get overwhelmed and try to do all those things, because there are probably only one or two things you need to do in that department well that fit your lifestyle, skill set, and personality. Just do one or two of those things well. Like for you, speaking is a natural thing, and for someone else it might be social media or blogging. Just know, everyone listening, there are one or two things you need to do that will be a good fit for you, and you don’t have to step too far out of your comfort zone.

The other thing is, you brought up a great point, Dave, that a lot of people don’t think about: When you’re promoting your book, pre-publication or post, [it’s about] going after the people, not just individual readers and book buyers, but the people who buy in bulk, the influencers. The people who have a big following who will promote you to their list, or will buy the book in big quantities. You can sell 1,000 books in six months doing it one way, and 10,000 or 100,000 doing it the other way. And it’s the same amount of energy.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 9

DH: Absolutely. There is something about fiction where there are book clubs springing up, and different lists you can get on, and organizations out there. There are so many websites where you can promote your book. People can have a conversation with the author and for book clubs, that’s gold for them. They love being able to interact with an author. There are a lot of different ways to do it. Sometimes I think hit the standard routines, but be creative as well.

Mark Malatesta: Right. I know people are curious about this, and I get a lot of questions, so let’s give people a little sense of what we did together so they can understand how author coaching works, whether it’s with me or someone else. In general, they can see the value of it. You and I, we get it, we’re both in business, and anyone who has done anything in business or on a professional level understands the importance, and need, to invest and better yourself and get educated. Take shortcuts with working with people who have been there before at a high level.

Let’s give people a glimpse of that, and talk about what motivated you to work with me in the first place. Some authors reach out to me when they’re frustrated and banging their head on the wall for a while. Others who are a little smarter know the value of doing something like this earlier and want to prevent that pain. Where were you at that point?

DH: I think I’m a mixture of those two. I started the process and talked to another author, and got his perspective. But the game had changed so much from what he told me. I wasn’t sure if it was still valid. I guess I’ll say, I spun the dice, but I wasn’t going anywhere. I sent out about 40 queries at that point, and had a book proposal. I created them by reading different books, but I wasn’t going anywhere, and why I was trying to find someone to coach me through the process and when I found you.

Mark Malatesta: Okay, I like that. I was going to ask what you tried or did before you worked with me, but I think you answered that. You used some resources online and in books, and sent out queries, and it wasn’t getting to the end result, even though you might have been getting a little traction.

DH: I got some responses, but not the response. I was getting some conversations with literary agents, but I was getting conflicting messages from them as well. I think it’s because everyone acts in their own self-interest. And some things they were telling me were contradicting each other. That’s another reason I reached out to you. I needed someone to help me navigate and speak the language literary agents speak.

Mark Malatesta: Yes, and I want to make sure everyone gets this. This is the fine line. I think I told you this during our first interaction, “You very much might be able to do this on your own and have success without even talking to me once.” I don’t know, to me, that’s the lazy author who thinks that way. We all think that way, and it’s how we survive as human beings. We look for the shortcuts to save time and be efficient. But if you try to do it with your writing, do the least amount possible to skate in by the skin of your teeth to make the deal happen, you can kill your project. Or, if it’s going to happen, it won’t be very successful.

So, it’s like you might have gone the other way on your own and barely squeaked in, but then I bet you wouldn’t have gotten as good a literary agent, and probably wouldn’t have gotten multiple offers from publishers. And everything would have fizzled out quickly, or not have happened at all. You might have gotten a literary agent who didn’t get you a book deal. There’s such a fine line there. Me, I don’t need to have a coach for some of the things I do in my business. I have a coach for how I put my content online so people can find me on the Internet. I can bumble my way through that on my own, and do pretty well. But I want to do it at the highest level, so I pay someone a lot of money to help me do it.

DH: You hit it, and from my perspective I had to have coaches and people help me through this process, because we’re all experts in some ways. But publishing is an industry, and there are people who are insiders and understand how it works. You can bumble around and get there eventually, but that’s painful and takes a long time. And at the end of the day you probably spend more money. I fumbled a bit there, and probably wasted some money doing some things I didn’t need to be doing.

Having someone who knows the right people and knows how to approach it, I think changes the game for you. Let’s face it, in this day and age, publishing houses are smaller and it’s more competitive. If you really want to play in this space, you need people who can help guide you and be your experts and help lead you.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 10

Mark Malatesta: That’s what I tell people. I had an email exchange with someone who wanted to sign up for my introductory coaching call about two weeks ago. She was asking, “What is your money-back guarantee for the intro coaching call?’ I was like, “Uh-oh, this isn’t a good start.” I asked, “What are you worried about? Maybe we’re not a good fit.” She replied, “Well, what if I do an introductory coaching call and implement the advice you give me, and I don’t get a literary agent and publisher? What happens? Do I get my money back?”

I said, “Listen, I don’t even guarantee clients who pay me a lot of money in a long term coaching program. I don’t guarantee they’re going to get a literary agent or publisher. It doesn’t work that way.” You do what you can to give yourself every edge you can. But at the end of the day, there’s no guarantee. Even working with me or someone like me, there’s no guarantee and it’s all the more reason to work with someone, because it is that competitive as you say.

DH: I think the other piece I’ll throw in, and I share this with my clients occasionally, is as a consultant on occasion. Someone will ask me if I’ll do some work for free, or do this and if it’s successful, we’ll pay you a percentage. I always turn those down. My reason is simple: This is a partnership, and we both have to be in it. Your sign of commitment, not only to me, but yourself, is you’re paying something for it. If you’re not paying for it, your level of commitment isn’t sufficient for us to be successful, so let’s agree to shake hands and part ways. I think that’s important. You have to find partners, and be committed. Finding a coach and paying someone is a beneficial investment because it makes you committed as well as the coach.

Mark Malatesta: Right, it does, and [it’s] why I love working with nonfiction authors. They get it and understand it. The entrepreneurs. Sometimes you have to educate the fiction authors so they can get that.

Now, I’m not fishing for anything specific, but from your perspective, walk people through, and I haven’t asked you this before, but from the moment we had our first call together, until the time you got a literary agent… Walk people through from your point of view what we talked about and did. I guess how it changed the game for you, the most valuable part of what we did, and how it impacted your query, and how you think about your book and the proposal, and how you dealt with some of the things that came your way.

DH: Right, and there are a lot of pieces there. When we started the coaching process, you asked for my query letter and book proposal, and you spent time digging into those. You came back with some points that really resonated and helped me change how I was pushing the book out. Again, up to that point I was floundering a bit. I had so many ideas, and I think I had some right ideas, they just weren’t organized and presented appropriately.

I think the first thing we did was dig in to make sure I was consistent in my query letter, my presentation on the internet, and in my book and my book proposal to make sure I was saying the same thing consistently. A lot of our time was digging into that, and got to the point where it was tight and clear, and you left someone with an impression of, “This is what this book is about and why it’s different, unique and powerful.” Even our first conversation was digging into that depth, and really helping me refine that message.

Mark Malatesta: That’s one of the hardest things to do for everybody, no matter the genre, and everybody has to fight that.

DH: You’re right, because I was trying to be all things to all people. And what we really had to recognize was, “Who was my audience? Why was this going to be interesting to them? Why was I the right person to write the book?” One of the things we called out immediately is I’m a practitioner. I wasn’t an academic, and so a lot of the things we were putting in here were based upon my experiences, which is unique in this industry.

If you look at business books today, the vast majority are written by academics. That was something we really called out. We walked through the proposal in detail and used a lot of that stuff and put it into the query letter so it was consistent. A lot of our initial time was spent refining the message and making it clear, making it a little more narrowly focused, but making it more powerful as a result, and making it resonate with that particular audience.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 11

Mark Malatesta: I think, too, and you can speak to this, especially a book like yours, which could be thought to be a small niche book, is making it feel and be bigger and more appealing to a broader market.

DH: Yes, absolutely. I think the other thing in our coaching sessions is at that time I had two literary agents reach out to me, right before our first contact. One wanted to represent me on a limited basis, and the other wanted to represent me to one publisher. Your advice was, “Be very careful about something like that. It’s a last resort. When you finally get a literary agent who wants to take you on as a partner, they will want to know that you already had other literary agents who reached out to the different publishing houses.”

So, understanding publishing and how it works, you really can’t go back to the well without substantially changing it. Maybe recognizing having a literary agent represent me to just one publisher wasn’t the right way to go. It’s avoiding the pitfalls, and really understanding the lay of the publishing land, and how it really works, and focusing on, Who are the right literary agents for my book?

One thing you told me is to think about what your book is like, and find out who the literary agents are who represent those books or similar books, and maybe find a way to get your book in front of them. In the end, that is the strategy that helped me land my literary agent, my understanding of who represented process type books, and finding a way to connect with them. That was a huge benefit, for me, working with you, Mark, was understanding how publishing works, and making sure my book was appropriately promoted and getting it into the hands of the right people.

Mark Malatesta: What I love about you is you looked before you talked to me and saw what I do. You had looked at some of the books out there on how to write query letters and book proposals. If you had to sum up, because my process is different, do you have a perspective on how that is different?

DH: It’s so boilerplate and I don’t think… If you want your book to stand out, just going and picking up a book and writing a query letter exactly the way they lay it out with their three-paragraph approach or whatever it is, it wasn’t getting my query noticed at all. The content wasn’t shining through.

You almost have to own it. I’m not saying be quirky, but make sure what you’re putting down pops. I had someone help me write a query letter before I met you, and they used a boilerplate. It didn’t get results because it wasn’t clear, succinct, or powerful. That’s where our process really refined it.

Mark Malatesta: Good, I love that. Let me throw you a curveball, because I get really interesting answers to this question. What are you most proud of as an author?

DH: Simply taking this to the finish line. Writing a book doesn’t have shortcuts, and you can’t cheat. You have to run hard for that time period, and get to that place. To me that’s a success. It’s a grueling sport, writing a book is one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. I’ve learned a lot through the process. I think a second book would be easier because you’ve gone through the mornings where you can’t string a sentence together, and you learned and understand its part of the process. But it’s painful, like taking a road trip by yourself for the first time.

There is a lot of uncertainty, and you don’t know where you’re going to end up. There’s no validation along the way, until you get that literary agent and publisher to say yes and actually hold that book. You don’t have any sense that what you do is worthwhile. It’s tough, and you have to operate in the dark for a bit.

Mark Malatesta: What’s harder, getting the book written or getting it out there?

DH: I want to say getting the book written.

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 12

Mark Malatesta: Yes, over such a long period of time, and getting it out there can go a lot faster especially if you get help. But there is no shortcut for getting the book written.

DH: Yes.

Mark Malatesta: Okay, you’re a businessman and understand investing in yourself. You believed in yourself, and your book enough to invest in it. Why did you feel it was a good investment at the end of the day? Why did you sign up to do something with me? Again, I’m not fishing for compliments, this is in general. Why do you think investing in yourself and writing is a good idea for anyone listening? Whether it’s with me or someone else? On principle, why is it important, from your point of view?

DH: I think the investment of time I put in the book, regardless of whether it got published, was very beneficial to me. As I told you, the writing process provides a lot of clarity and specificity to your thoughts and techniques. I’ve honed them in a greater extent than I ever would have. That’s been very useful to me in my business and speaking and in my professional career.

I’ll also say, make an investment in other people. This isn’t a road you can go. Every now and then, I’m sure there’s an outlier where you can get to the finish line without assistance, but I think you’ll run into a lot of walls before you get there. This is a hard enough quest on its own. You don’t need to make it difficult for yourself by not getting the advice of experts and an editor and people to help you.

An editor was a beneficial investment for me, and one of the things I did while still writing the book. I had to have someone to review it and tell me if it was junk, or if I was on to something. I got an editor, and he did a fantastic job of editing the book. I’d been lucky, and when it finally got to the publisher they said, “This has been edited, hasn’t it?” Yes, it had, and so that helped that I was writing in a format that was readable, engaging, and intriguing to the reader and make sure I benefited from their knowledge.

This isn’t something you can do on your own. I couldn’t have. Well, if I stayed on my own it might have taken me ten years, not the three it took me. I would strongly encourage people to get help.

Mark Malatesta: I love that, and it’s like another nugget we could have slipped into one of the previous questions about advice on writing your book, or getting it published: Work with an editor. Again, a lot of authors will think it’s the publisher’s job. Yes, you’ll have an editor, but unless you’re a previously published author, you’re probably not at that level on your own where something is at the point where it’s good enough for the editors at Random House or McGraw Hill can do what they need to do.

You need more help before that. It’s just shifting the whole mindset as an author, if you’re really serious about your books, and want them to get out to a lot of people and make money as an author, you have to start thinking about it more as a business and treat it that way. That means invest in yourself, and be realistic in the time and money commitment to educate yourself and develop your skills and get your product to that point where it’s worthy.

DH: Yes, and those are all good investments. They are all investments, I won’t second-guess, because they really helped me get to where I was going.

Mark Malatesta: Right. Let me ask you the scam or skepticism question. I love asking this, and learned it the hard way. I was getting a testimonial from a client I worked with, and asking what was great about what we did together. Before he launched into that, he told me what he didn’t like before he started working with me.

I was taken aback and annoyed, and then realized, “This is gold.” Now I ask everyone, because I know if one person thinks it, others are thinking it. No holds barred, before you signed up for the first call with me, did you have any reservations about anything? Online…Internet…who is this guy? And a lot of people don’t do what they say. So, what thoughts were going through your mind at that point? What made you take the leap?

Dave Hamme Interview with Mark Malatesta – Pt 13

DH: I guess there is a level of snake oil salesmen who promise the world. Their whole presentation, you get that feeling, “I may be making a mistake here.” I had a prior experience with someone who wrote a query letter for me and used a boilerplate, and I found the exact template they used online at another site.

When I came upon you, it was a little different. I went on your site, and saw you had a bunch of literary agents out there, and you go to some other sites and they say, “Yes, finish your book and we’ll charge x amount to find literary agents for you.” I was like, “Here he’s giving them free.” That gave me the perspective: There has to be something more to this guy, because he doesn’t have to give me the tricks up front.

Then I started going through, and you have a lot of information on your website, and that helped me feel, “This guy knows what he’s talking about.” Then I had to contact you. We had our first call, and you said, “I need you to fill out this questionnaire, and I need to see this from you.” That made me feel you were doing a complete job. You were looking at this stuff, trying to understand it and my message. [I felt] you would give me coaching individualized to myself as opposed to some people out there, call me up and say, “I’ll charge you for an hour,” but they don’t have any background material on you, and so it feels generic and a waste.

Mark Malatesta: It’s a “get-to-know-you” call, more than a “give-you-strategy” call, because they have to get up to speed the whole time.

DH: You got it. That’s why it felt different, out of the gate, and that’s why I decided to work with you.

Mark Malatesta: I appreciate that. We have a few minutes left, so do you have any final thoughts or wisdom for everyone listening, or any last advice?

DH: I think we’ve covered the key things. Writing is, for me at least, something you have to just get started. You have to muddle through it, and there will be tough times, but be persistent. Recognize that the output of your book, whether it gets published or not, is valuable to you, and you’ve learned a lot of lessons, and it’s been a valuable experience.

The other thing I’d say is get help. This isn’t a road you need to go on yourself. Get people to help you, to read your book and provide insights. Get the experts. Stephen King says whenever he finishes a novel, he gives it to people who know the material. The great thing he says, is get some comments back that are very specific and helpful to you. Reach out to people. This isn’t a journey to do on your own. The hard work you do in isolation. But you have to get feedback, and have coaching throughout the process. If you do that, I think you’ll be successful.

Mark Malatesta: I love that. Thank you so much. I deeply appreciate it. A lot of people will come to an interview, and you can tell their only focus is to promote themselves and their book. But you’re just as much focused on bringing valuable advice for everyone listening that will help them. I greatly appreciate that. Also, I appreciate you sharing what we did together, and how I can help authors. I’m so grateful for you, and I know everyone listening got a lot out of this, so thank you so much.

DH: Likewise ,and I appreciate your help through the process. I wouldn’t have gotten to where I am without you.

Mark Malatesta: Thank you, Dave.

This interview with Mark Malatesta was recorded with Dave Hamme, who worked with the author coach to get an offer of representation from a literary agent. Dave then got book publishing contract offers from three major publishers: Amacom, Palgrave Macmillan, and Mc-Graw Hill, which published his book, Customer Focused Process Innovation, in hardcover.

Learn More About Author Coach and Former Literary Agent Mark Malatesta

Mark Malatesta is the creator of the well-known Directory of Literary Agents and this popular How to Get a Literary Agent Guide. He is the host of Ask a Literary Agent, and founder of The Bestselling Author and Literary Agent Undercover. Mark’s articles have appeared in the Writer’s Digest Guide to Literary Agents and the Publishers Weekly Book Publishing Almanac.

Mark has helped hundreds of authors get literary agents. His authors have gotten book deals with traditional publishers such as Random House, Harper Collins, and Thomas Nelson. They’ve been on the New York Times bestseller list; had their books optioned for TV, stage, and feature film; won countless awards; and had their work licensed in more than 40 countries.

Writers of all Book Genres (fiction, nonfiction, and children’s books) have used Mark’s Literary Agent Advice coaching/consulting to get the Best Literary Agents at the Top Literary Agencies on his List of Literary Agents.

Click here to learn more about Mark Malatesta.